My concerns about the plugin community.

[The26]

More about plugin monetization, I would be quite happy if monetization for plugins was completely disabled. I've always felt bad monetizing my plugins, even if you just had to watch an ad, 30 diamonds for me still feels like too much. Especially when conisdering that TheoTown is a free game, on mobile, at least. Even just that ad feels like a huge rip-off. It's hard for me to think that some people want more than 30 diamonds for sometimes very simple plugins...
However, the most diabolical type of people I've seen are ones that set the prices at 31 DIAMONDS. I don't see a reason to be such a jerk just to not let people watch an ad to get your plugin for free. I think the best way to circumvent this would be to simply just make it so you can only input round amounts (like 10, 20, 50, 140, etc.) and add the option to make plugins free.
One other issue with pricing I see is overpriced plugins. I remember seeing some plugin which just has 1 residential building and is priced at... *drumroll*... 700 DIAMONDS!!! And that plugin somehow got accepted. Why not just add a cap to what price you can make so that we avoid such stuff from happening? Or I don't know... maybe also check if the plugin is worth the price?? Well, I'm gonna leave this idea here in case someone wants to add to it or something.

[Pwyll]

1. "Generations"
So, I think the first thing is quite clear when I mention it. It's inevitable, and will pretty much happen in any community. It's how our current "generation" of plugin creators are dying - lots of experienced and old plugin creators (such as RockFort, Yusuf, I'd even add Vonark to this list) are leaving the community and newbies replacing them (whose names I shall not mention). I'm mostly worried about this issue, seeing how most of the plugins by new people are typically of low quality. What if all the talented people leave and now we're left with only poor quality plugins? I mean, we do have documentation but when's the last time you've seen those tutorials, specifically regarding graphics, actually get used by the newbies? This happens to be the base of pretty much any problem
[...]

Ah, _ RockFort _ and yusuf8a684...
I remember using a lot their plugins...
They were excellent plugin creators and they had an extraordinary variety and quality in their plugins...
I see that today's plugin creators don't make plugins of the same calibre, and that really gets me asking myself "Why?" "What happened to the community?". It's sad, but true. Leaving was the best option for them. vönark got banned btw

2. The "new" creators
[...]
Okay, some of them aren't that bad. Actually, I'm happy about some members who actually managed to improve their plugins, like Naufhal. I remember when he used to plugins that I could only describe as horrid, but now he seems to make acceptable quality plugins. That's progress! I can see a bright (futute) future for him.
[...]

[...]
Naufhal. He's an annoying kid, but I'm actually kind of proud of him. Seeing him upgrade in the plugin-related stuff made me not dislike him anymore.

As for (most) of the other creators... I won't mention their names but I can only describe their plugins just like I could describe Naufhal's first plugins - horrid.
[...]

Unfortunately true, many plugin makers either don't have experience making plugins or just don't like criticism at all and don't improve. The plugin store now is just full of plugins of doubtful quality.
...

[IlikeBurgerHam]

Being part of the newer generation of plugin developers, I agree with you for the most part. The older generation of plugin developers are retiring and I've seen it unfold in the discord server. I hope the new generations of plugin developers will do better and, if possible, exceed expectations; even if expectations are too high to begin with.

The part which mentions "quantity over quality", I decided to release some buildings that are big(i.e. skyscrapers) individually for the sake of people's plugin space. I will release plugins in packs in the future however.

There is one thing I can definitely say about the high standards of the community. People complaining about night animations is, personally, passable. But people complaining about rotation aware and pointless things(like no DUTY FREE in Flughafen Zurich), those people really need to consider that there really are some things that are not possible under the current version of Theotown or EVER.

Overall, I can understand about your concerns and I wish that the community changes to pick quality over quantity.

P.S. I love how Naufhal's improving and maybe if he keeps on making plugins that are better over time, he could be remembered as a better plugin developer who had a bad start.

[DelTaco24]

Well let’s be real here, the only people who would miss the monetization is the kids who make crappy and overpriced plugins themselves. They’re they only people who care about it, anyone who makes decent quality plugins doesn’t care and/or wants it gone as earning gems isn’t their motive. As for hoping the community will favor quality over quantity in the future, that’s kinda in the devs’ hands, they’re the ones that are gonna have to start favoring quality over quantity themselves to see things change for the better. Right now I’m under the impression that they’re completely fine with the way things currently are and don’t want to make any changes. The reason for this is probably because it makes them more money. Since people have been brainwashed into preferring free apps over paid ones, of course the game will get more downloads on mobile if it’s free, and the same people who think paid apps are a “scam” will end up spending hundreds of dollars on overpriced in-game currency, in this case gems. It’s a shame to see how they utilize this scummy “freemium” business model, it was a pure quantity move to drop having premium on mobile (in my opinion). I was shaking my head the day they replaced the premium version for IOS just to cater to the majority of people (probably kids) begging for it to be free. They gave in so easily as they probably realized they could make more money. I even remember stumbling upon a post begging for the steam version to be free, sigh. The current state of the plugin store and community sure makes me glad I was smart enough to just fork over the $7 myself. I’ve enjoyed a gem and ad free experience ever since, it’s basically allowed me to play the steam version on mobile. I haven’t spent a penny on TT ever since the day I bought it. That was actually the day I personally learned that paid apps are just better and more worthwhile. Anyways, as long as the devs favor money over quality, the community will just continue to rot, it will just makes the game more accessible to kids and they will keep coming and continue to kill the community. Theotown needs a more serious community to reach its full potential, but instead the devs want to target it at kids and squeeze money out of them since they will willingly buy gems and watch ads, and there’s the problem, their high tolerance of this crap and being money hungry.

[IlikeBurgerHam]

Well let’s be real here, the only people who would miss the monetization is the kids who make crappy and overpriced plugins themselves. They’re they only people who care about it, anyone who makes decent quality plugins doesn’t care and/or wants it gone as earning gems isn’t their motive. As for hoping the community will favor quality over quantity in the future, that’s kinda in the devs’ hands, they’re the ones that are gonna have to start favoring quality over quantity themselves to see things change for the better. Right now I’m under the impression that they’re completely fine with the way things currently are and don’t want to make any changes. The reason for this is probably because it makes them more money. Since people have been brainwashed into preferring free apps over paid ones, of course the game will get more downloads on mobile if it’s free, and the same people who think paid apps are a “scam” will end up spending hundreds of dollars on overpriced in-game currency, in this case gems. It’s a shame to see how they utilize this scummy “freemium” business model, it was a pure quantity move to drop having premium on mobile (in my opinion). I was shaking my head the day they replaced the premium version for IOS just to cater to the majority of people (probably kids) begging for it to be free. They gave in so easily as they probably realized they could make more money. I even remember stumbling upon a post begging for the steam version to be free, sigh. The current state of the plugin store and community sure makes me glad I was smart enough to just fork over the $7 myself. I’ve enjoyed a gem and ad free experience ever since, it’s basically allowed me to play the steam version on mobile. I haven’t spent a penny on TT ever since the day I bought it. That was actually the day I personally learned that paid apps are just better and more worthwhile. Anyways, as long as the devs favor money over quality, the community will just continue to rot, it will just makes the game more accessible to kids and they will keep coming and continue to kill the community. Theotown needs a more serious community to reach its full potential, but instead the devs want to target it at kids and squeeze money out of them since they will willingly buy gems and watch ads, and there’s the problem, their high tolerance of this crap and being money hungry.

I would understand why devs do that. They need a stable source of income to sustain their daily lives. Also, this topic is about the plugin community, not about how the devs earn money from Theotown.

[DelTaco24]

(Long quote)

I would understand why devs do that. They need a stable source of income to sustain their daily lives. Also, this topic is about the plugin community, not about how the devs earn money from Theotown.

Well that is a point, however the premium version (in my opinion) should still be available for mobile either as an in app purchase or separate app so the option is still there for those who want it. Anyways, what my point was it I feel the app being paid would help keep most of the kids out as they wouldn’t wanna pay for it since most of these kids mobile versions that are free, but that’s just my point of view. The more critical thing is yes, the moderation, the moderators have got to be more serious stop defending kids and approving their absolutely atrocious plugins because “tHeY’Re jUsT KiDs tHeIR bRaINs ArE sTiLl dEVelOpiNG!!”, for anything to improve. The way they allow these kids to rule Theotown is very infuriating. And either way, paid or free, plugin store monetization has got to GO! It’s painfully obvious it’s being abused and encouraging people to make crap plugins. It’s only contributing to the decline of the TT community and it being removed wouldn’t affect the devs’ income. The only people it would effect are the kids who pump out crappy plugins to earn gems.

[Edubbs15]

I would like to think that the monetization of the plugin story system helps to pay for the severs such. Because from what I recall a small amount of the diamonds from a download actually account to what the plugin maker gets back. Without doubt there are countless issues with the system, but I like to atleast hope that's the why it is monetized the way it is

[DelTaco24]

I would like to think that the monetization of the plugin story system helps to pay for the severs such. Because from what I recall a small amount of the diamonds from a download actually account to what the plugin maker gets back. Without doubt there are countless issues with the system, but I like to atleast hope that's the why it is monetized the way it is

I’m willing to bet it was just a bonus way for players to earn gems, nothing more nothing less. But who knows.
Either way it seems to be doing more bad than good.

[TheLeaf2805]

I've never had any major issues with the store mods, but based on their actions I agree that they are not doing a great job. The developers really need to reorganize the store's mod team and give them strict and clear guidelines to adhere to. Currently, they are very inconsistent at enforcing the guidelines and they are contributing to the other issues you mentioned.

Well, we did request it the last time on discord. And the plugin store's quality did go up.

[IlikeBurgerHam]

(Long quote)

I would understand why devs do that. They need a stable source of income to sustain their daily lives. Also, this topic is about the plugin community, not about how the devs earn money from Theotown.

Well that is a point, however the premium version (in my opinion) should still be available for mobile either as an in app purchase or separate app so the option is still there for those who want it. Anyways, what my point was it I feel the app being paid would help keep most of the kids out as they wouldn’t wanna pay for it since most of these kids mobile versions that are free, but that’s just my point of view. The more critical thing is yes, the moderation, the moderators have got to be more serious stop defending kids and approving their absolutely atrocious plugins because “tHeY’Re jUsT KiDs tHeIR bRaINs ArE sTiLl dEVelOpiNG!!”, for anything to improve. The way they allow these kids to rule Theotown is very infuriating. And either way, paid or free, plugin store monetization has got to GO! It’s painfully obvious it’s being abused and encouraging people to make crap plugins. It’s only contributing to the decline of the TT community and it being removed wouldn’t affect the devs’ income. The only people it would effect are the kids who pump out crappy plugins to earn gems.

Personally, I don't really care about the gems since I use the Steam version. But I believe that it can be used as a form of motivation for plugin creators to release plugins, be it good or bad. Some plugin creators can be motivated to make higher quality plugins through that as well. But if there was something the devs definitely should add is the ability to sell plugins for free.

[Lukasbeenhere]

Tbh i dont really like the idea of TT Being a paid game, Since alot of people (and maybe kids) are not willing to pay for such thing, just like me, the reason why i downloaded this game its because i think its so close to Cities: Skylines but its pixel and free to play, and there is alot of irl buildings too

Thats why i started making plugins because there are some buildings that i want badly in this game, i dont really care about monetization since im just so happy that the buildings i really want is on the game and alot of people are using it too

I just hope that the moderators will do a better job at handling this, and maybe help the kids that are uploading crappy plugins to the store by dissapproving them and telling what wrong with it

[FVI]

(Long quote)

I would understand why devs do that. They need a stable source of income to sustain their daily lives. Also, this topic is about the plugin community, not about how the devs earn money from Theotown.

Well that is a point, however the premium version (in my opinion) should still be available for mobile either as an in app purchase or separate app so the option is still there for those who want it. Anyways, what my point was it I feel the app being paid would help keep most of the kids out as they wouldn’t wanna pay for it since most of these kids mobile versions that are free, but that’s just my point of view. The more critical thing is yes, the moderation, the moderators have got to be more serious stop defending kids and approving their absolutely atrocious plugins because “tHeY’Re jUsT KiDs tHeIR bRaINs ArE sTiLl dEVelOpiNG!!”, for anything to improve. The way they allow these kids to rule Theotown is very infuriating. And either way, paid or free, plugin store monetization has got to GO! It’s painfully obvious it’s being abused and encouraging people to make crap plugins. It’s only contributing to the decline of the TT community and it being removed wouldn’t affect the devs’ income. The only people it would effect are the kids who pump out crappy plugins to earn gems.

Maybe you didn't think that if theotown became paid, it would split downloads. And then I don't understand why you want theotown to become an exclusive game. Ps Stop complaining about low-quality plugins (as you call them) the new generation of plugins is just beginning. You will see that they will improve.
I practically agree with Lukasbeenhere

[The26]

I would understand why devs do that. They need a stable source of income to sustain their daily lives. Also, this topic is about the plugin community, not about how the devs earn money from Theotown.

Long quote.

Maybe you didn't think that if theotown became paid, it would split downloads. And then I don't understand why you want theotown to become an exclusive game. Ps Stop complaining about low-quality plugins (as you call them) the new generation of plugins is just beginning. You will see that they will improve.
I practically agree with Lukasbeenhere

Paid games attract a much better audience.
And I can't say that the new generation is off to a good start, previous generations have raised the bar up high and with a motive just to earn more diamonds, which happens to be what most creators of the new generation only care about, it's going to be very hard to do that. Not to mention the fact that quite a lot of the new plugin creators just don't improve. I don't know how many times I saw edited versions of the sample house, bright blue skyscrapers...
I'm worried about the future, the new creators only think about the diamonds, not the users. They don't improve. The big issue is that the moderators allow them to do it for the diamonds.

[The26]

About vonark, I am aware that he was banned. I'm still saying that he "left the community" but apparently he still makes plugins, just for an (unfortunately) smaller audience. I wish he was at least allowed to upload plugins to the plugin store...

[DelTaco24]

Long quote.

Maybe you didn't think that if theotown became paid, it would split downloads. And then I don't understand why you want theotown to become an exclusive game. Ps Stop complaining about low-quality plugins (as you call them) the new generation of plugins is just beginning. You will see that they will improve.
I practically agree with Lukasbeenhere

Paid games attract a much better audience.
And I can't say that the new generation is off to a good start, previous generations have raised the bar up high and with a motive just to earn more diamonds, which happens to be what most creators of the new generation only care about, it's going to be very hard to do that. Not to mention the fact that quite a lot of the new plugin creators just don't improve. I don't know how many times I saw edited versions of the sample house, bright blue skyscrapers...
I'm worried about the future, the new creators only think about the diamonds, not the users. They don't improve. The big issue is that the moderators allow them to do it for the diamonds.

“Paid games attract a much better audience.” Yeah that pretty much sums up what I was trying to say.

Also, the message I’m getting from Fvi going by this post and one of his previous ones is that he thinks that there should be no quality rules for the plugin store at all and anything that gets submitted should just automatically be approved? He can correct me if I’m wrong about what he’s saying, but that’s the message I’ve gotten.

[Kulche]

Long quote.

I disagree. It would be much better for the game and the community if TheoTown was simply a one-time purchase, like the Steam version. It's either that, or diamonds, microtransactions and constant ads. Nobody likes ads.

[DelTaco24]

Long quote.

I disagree. It would be much better for the game and the community if TheoTown was simply a one-time purchase, like the Steam version. It's either that, or diamonds, microtransactions and constant ads. Nobody likes ads.

Totally agree!

[TheLeaf2805]

Long quote.

Maybe you didn't think that if theotown became paid, it would split downloads. And then I don't understand why you want theotown to become an exclusive game. Ps Stop complaining about low-quality plugins (as you call them) the new generation of plugins is just beginning. You will see that they will improve.
I practically agree with Lukasbeenhere

Paid games attract a much better audience.
And I can't say that the new generation is off to a good start, previous generations have raised the bar up high and with a motive just to earn more diamonds, which happens to be what most creators of the new generation only care about, it's going to be very hard to do that. Not to mention the fact that quite a lot of the new plugin creators just don't improve. I don't know how many times I saw edited versions of the sample house, bright blue skyscrapers...
I'm worried about the future, the new creators only think about the diamonds, not the users. They don't improve. The big issue is that the moderators allow them to do it for the diamonds.

"Paid games attract a much better audience" is also what I want to say. Urbek is an example. They are new but they have a much better community. Do they have new members every day? yes, but they behave more politely comparing to theotown's.

[Imran M]

Screenshot_20220723_135802.jpg

Original post.

well if vonark doesn't get banned by this server you might still be able to see some good plugins from it

Hello akunbaru! I was wondering what vönark actually did? I asked a person on the discord, but I was a bit afraid of wasting his time.

[Imran M]

This issue has gotten worse, I guess...but without the voices from the earliest of OGs here I'll make my point clear for that...

When I was apart of this sentiment against the leniency of plugin approvals, along with the first or second gen plugin creators (e.g. Kekman, I, Monte, Rockfort, etc.), that was when the markets started to kick in. To give a date, that was 2019/20, when I only had 40 thousand downloads, at most. I have around 930k now, this gives a context on how old this issue is.

Sergio was on his maximum run of over 20 plugins a month. He was one of the first major creators to possess true annoyance to us, not just because his plugins were below average in terms of quality, but that he glanced the descriptions part of the page and made it incredibly casual. Of course when comparing the creators today, Sergio's quality is like of those from Michelangelo.

Always remember, Theotown is a game of kids. You can't deny it. Kids have unnatural requests when it comes to nice things. They want it to be as nice as possible and we cannot fulfill it. Remember in 2018 when a plugin with no night lights and rotational graphics can bring applause while today you need everything and they might not even budge at it?

Since I am not apart of this community for a long time now, who has been approving plugins? Back then it was Kulche (perhaps?), and he was a competent plugin creator. If it were him these plugins would've had not existed on the markets.

Hell I can laugh off with my 278 thousand diamond stockpiles seeing spammers trying to get a few thousand by making absolutely atrocious plugins.

Hey! Would you consider me a part of the first generation?